>> it was great. you were on the west coast last week. where are you going next? >> we're going to florida this week. obviously, it's perhaps one of the most paradise venues. and it's ground zero for dysfunctional health care, screwed up housing market, one in four people in miami were unemployed. and the primary. it's the illusion of what we would aspire to ourselves and our country and the grim underbelly of some of it. >> and may i add my own commendation for you for the wearing of spectacles. >> what i noticed is newt gingrich is the lizard king. nobody else is in charge. the same thing with the glasses. watch this. without the glasses, you're like i don't know if i should listen

to that guy. put them on. he must be smart. >> dylan, you're smart with or without. your show starts right now. >> thank you very much. good afternoon. i'm dylan ratigan back in new york for a brief stop along our 30 million jobs tour this year. more on that it later as today's big story is the rumble this evening. mitt versus newt in the nbc news debate in florida. will they discuss jobs? will they discuss money and politics? i can't imagine. while it is the 18th republican debate, this auction cycle, we can expect the gloves to come off tonight. never before have three different candidates won the first three early voting states in a sequence like this leaving no front runner with the first legitimate batch of delegates,

florida, up for grabs. newt gingrich fresh off a south carolina win. mitt will release his tax returns tomorrow. he's made a lot of money and not paid everybody enough. also you'll learn about the tax law a little bit. his record at bain capital resulted resurfaced in the sunshine state and gingrich's time taking millions from freddie mac as they facilitated their part of the housing bubble, which was felt in florida. talk about a wart-laid batch of candidates. early voting is already underway in florida. nearly two million republicans did vote in that state, which by the way, is more than of the republican voters in every state that's already voted, being south carolina, new hampshire, and iowa. we go to our primary post game

guy. columnist johnathan altar. he's been to more rodeos than a lot of us. author of "the promise." what do you see? >> it's going to be great. this is high-class enterta entertainment. the debates keep getting wilder. even republicans, like peggy newman, are calling it a clown car. you're going to see romney using freddie mac to blame all of florida's housing woes on newt gingrich. gingrich is going to use a few different companies that bain invested in and laid off to blame all of florida unemployment on mitt. >> if only it was that simple. imagine we found out it was newt and mitt and we could ground the two of them up. >> neither of them had anything to do with it. but it doesn't matter in politics. >> the interesting thing about

what you said though, i see some encouragement from, by newt trying to pin the unemployment in florida on foreclosure crisis in florida on newt, at the very least, we could have a debate that involves the foreclosure and housing issues and unemployment as opposed to open marriage and gay marriage. >> or all the other completely irrelevant issues we have been talking about. that's an important point. we might finally get down to real fundamentals. the problem is they will be talking about the right issues, but they will be saying things about those issues that aren't true. your one of the only people in the press who will be able to correct a lot of this. it's complicated. the housing crisis has multiple sources. >> the system. it's not new.

>> it wasn't freddie mac, but it wasn't unrelated. but maybe with a little bit of help, people can get a little bit of an education on some of these things. and the good news is, at least the decisions are going to be made more on debates than on the air pollution and the ads running all over florida. >> why do you say that? people are fearful of the super pac. >> i'm not saying they are not relevant. we need a constitutional amendment that says that. it is perverting our process in a lot of ways. but fortunately, sometimes it's good to look at the glass half full. the spine of this republican contest so far has been debates more than ads. the ads have not really made as big a difference as people think. it's not well, if only rick perry had money to go on tv, he would still be in. he had plenty of money. he's out of it because he was a

dufuss at the debates. >> the 30 million jobs tour, a culture of investment through revisions in the tax code and trade policy. i don't e know what all the laws should be, and i could be wrong about 50 ideas. but the fact of the matter is if you don't have a culture of investment that driven by banking, taxes, and trade, you're not going to have jobs. we're going to hear talk about unemployment in florida. we'll hear about the housing crisis. even if it's just being used as a political pawn, are we getting closer? it's systematic of the final issue, which is a lack of of a culture of investment in america. >> i completely agree with you. you'll hear more about the investment ideas from barack obama tomorrow night in the state of the union address. aid for education, letting kids

go to college to be trained for the workforce, that's an investment. the republican party used to believe in investing in the country. they were founded 150 years ago on the idea of internal improvements, what we now call infrastructure. investment in our country. they don't believe that that's the function of the federal government. so on something like education, both these guys have supported the ryan plan. the implications are pell grants. forget about it. >> also the taxes. the issue when you look at the posture of the president and his opponents, for somebody in my posture, i almost view it as my job to continue to bark at the heels along the issue of investment and unemployment, no one is going to do it. the question is are we seeing outside of the presidential palaces more of a narrative in

this country that's going to bark at all the candidates? >> there's more of a narrative. if you read a piece by steve case, he's on the president's jobs council. the whole piece is about what you're talking about. the fact is that in the white house and in the democratic party, there was a lot of talk about this. the republican party is behind the times. they have only one tool in their tool box. tax cuts for the wealthy. that's it. if you look up and down, their growth agenda doesn't actually involve investing in the country other than tax cuts. >> the reason why we don't have the investment. taxes are a tool of an investment. they are right that's a good tool. >> a tool out of six or seven that you need. and the president, he gets this. you have to have a multipronged

investment and growth strategy. you'll see him laying that out in his speech. >> it will be interesting for all of us to hear. especially when we're desperate to have that debate. i think everybody realizes this is a complex issue that that no one person can resolve. i want you to take advantage of your experience and resume to make us feel better about the clown show. in the context of presidential history and presidential races, a sense of sadness, shall we say. a sense of disinfranchisement. you feel the quality of the debate is either lacking in credibility or is not addressing the core issues. what is the history in american presidential politics from your view in terms of the absurdity of the presidential races and the press and the rest of it and how does that compare to this year? >> it's bad this year. in other words, usually the

parties even if they start out on the extreme, as the process goes on, they move towards the center. you have one party that's left of center. and you have another party that's way right of center. even if mitt romney doesn't believe it in his heart, he has to mouth all these things and talk the talk in order to try to get through the primaries. so you're getting, you know, issues they are raising that are really pretty far outside the mainstream. pretty far outside of what people want to hear discussed. and so you're not getting the debate that you're talking about. it's so important that you're doing what you're doing. the only thing that politicians respond to is somebody lighting a fire under them. if there's some sort of political pressure, like you're providing, to talk about the right things, you're going to get them on the right subject.

kennedy and nixon talked about the islands in the pacific off of china. >> as if it was a political relevance. >> never quite to the level we have today with the crisis that the the country is in. >> the nice thing about the 30 million jobs framing is here's the problem. this is it. nobody can do this, but systems can solve this. and only a system with -- my fantasy would be the democrats aspiring to a system of investment and the republicans one upping them on investment. don't play them under. play them over. >> who will close the skills gap. that's what we have internationally. >> and drive the money in to help make it happen. thank you. nice to see you. and thank you for your praise for what we're doing as well. >> it's important. >> everybody is having a great time. everybody is feeling positive. thank you. coming up here, are you confused about your health care? drawing a clear picture of the crisis using cartoons.

first the mega panel setting the line on the gop fight night in florida. not to mention, a little more ahead of tomorrow's big state of the union. can the president raise the anti on investment in america? we're taking a pit stop in new york. the 30 million jobs tour rolling on this week. details still to come. [ coughs ] what is this shorty? uh, tissues sir, i'm sick. you don't cough, you don't show defeat.

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he said in a debate that people who profited from the failed model of freddie mac and fannie mae ought to give back their money. the speaker made millions of dollars from providing services to freddie mac.

he ought to give it back. >> if you have been campaigning for six years and you begin to see it slip away, you get desperate. and when you get desperate, you say almost anything. and i think tonight's debate he will probably stretch the barrier of almost anything. >> the fun begins. the leading two contenders s shadow boxing today in preparation for the gop's fight night in florida. the auction is not a race at all anymore. this is purely a battle of two men's egos for power. florida is the first one with real chips. 50 delegates for the convention. i want to bring in the mega panel. imogen lloyd webber. for the first time, the lack of

unemployment in the banking system and their role in that. finances being attributed to it, whether it's incorrect or correct is irrelevant. it's being talked about. the same time, the housing crisis. >> i think that the freddie mac thing is well absorbed into the american public. >> what do you mean? >> i think a lot of people know freddie mac and fannie mae helped to distort the market in such a way that created this housing bubble. >> it was a component. they were a facilitator. >> but the bain capital thing it, i think newt has a harder road when he's trying to say mitt made a profit and some people lost jobs. that works in the circles of the world, but does it work?

maybe it does. i hope not. >> newt's argument is it's a broader argument. he calls it vulture capitalism. there is a problem with capitalism that you have companies being financial liezed. bain capital made their money by turning them into financial instruments. they did not go in to turn around the steel company. they knew how to leverage the companies and via the tax code and via investments they could use it as financial instruments. that's the broader issue. >> that's the interesting thing. it's unfair to lay the issues of fannie mae and freddie mac at the feet of new englat gingrich. it's unfair to lay the issues of leverage at mitt romney's feet. what's happening, it seems like we're getting an education through the lenses of the candidates and their behavior as

to how the systems currently function. that seems to be the most encouraging component. >> your question is are we going to get the debate we finally deserve? it depends on the moderator. john king could have gone after gingrich a little more. gingrich shot back about the marriage. >> i have 50 million in poverty. here's where i disagree with you. if you don't use proportionality, you can't solve problems. if you consider the marital behavior of one to be proportional to the poverty, the unemployment of 30 million americans and the corruption of the entire governmental system, when your only resource is time, the only thing i don't have a lot of on the planet and in a conversation is time. and when i decide to proportionally focus on things

that are good, and with bill clinton? the democrats are going to play this game? >> it was reckless to do it. what i'm saying it's going to be interesting to see where the moderators are going to go. they have to push the candidates. >> the difference between gingrich and romney is that gingrich was profiting by kroen yism. the rigged game you're talking about. whether it's ethanol or prescription drugs. romney, have they dug it up on romney? gingrich hasn't yet. >> i was told some interesting things that are coming out. bain at one point put in $17 million of the italian yellow phone book and pulled out $300 million. >> but does that narrative work

in the republican party? >> each one has their own way of saying i'm going to use somebody else's money. >> but it does matter for republicans. >> the broader issue is we have fundamental problems with how we make decisions in this country. i'm glad these guys tb proxies for it all today. >> we're all learning. to the president's reelection bid, tomorrow night the president will give his annual state of the union address. insiders say it's expected to sound like the state of the obama presidential campaign address. a taste of what he'll do in 2012 after taking a battering from republicans on debt and budget issues. those are issues you'll see the president talking about. no longer focused on his diplomacy across the aisle, but a candidate fighting for his own reelection. this is obviously one where in the referendum of the trillion dollars in decline of lending in

this country, the explosion of poverty, the explosion of unemployment, you wouldn't want to be a president running, but for the fact your opponents are mitt romney, newt gingrich, and so there's an interest. the president needs this race to be about these republicans we were just discussing and not about the lack of investment and lending in this country. can he do that? >> well, i mean, it's already happening. you have mitt romney anewt gingrich's bain capital thing. say what you will, but i want to produce that thing. >> that was over the top. >> i'm glad that somebody is raising these issues. and i hope president obama will continue the conversation. >> the interesting thing is the president has not addressed the mitt romney finance issues or the housing issues.

>> he's implicated in all the same that newt gingrich is implicated. he's giving handouts to favored companies. he's managing the economy not by sam cedar heavy-handed socialist, but corporatist. >> which leaves us with the corporatist or a corporatist? >> that's a wonderful choice. getting back to the state of the union tomorrow night, fundamentally obama is having fun. the arguments of the republicans are making themselves look bad. we had had the preview in kansas. we'll be hearing more about that tomorrow. the fact that the system is rigged. maybe he's been watching the dylan ratigan show. >> david stockman is going to be out here in a second. he's one of the best voices of the country against capitalism or corporate communism or getting screwed. it depends what you like to call it. but he's here to talk about how

to return investment in this country and get corporatists and take advantage of what we're learning through the republican debates to not only raise the bar on the republicans, but to take that new higher bar back over to the democrats. straight ahead, why we can't get no satisfaction when it comes to the economy. former director david stockman is here.

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we figure if the 1% has the money, the other 16% must be confused. how can anyone be satisfied when 26% of us are unemployed or underemployed? just the latest example of the split in the country between those that have and do not have and those that are working together in alignment to help each other. i want to bring in former director under president reagan david stockman. a man who was one of the most aggressive in capitalism and opponents of capitalism. i want to continue the conversation we were having about the education newt and mitt are giving us. your assessment of the indictments of one another. >> freddie mac and fannie mae were a ses pool. newt was him krcritical in taki money from freddie mac and pretending they needed a

historian. but bh you look at the other side, i think unfortunately, romney was disingenuous when he e said he got an education in company creation, job creation and growing economy as an lbo artist. >> let's make a distinction. >> lots of folks in silicon valley start businesses. what's the difference in what mitt romney was doing? >> leverage just financial speculation. i was in the business for the same reason he was. i would not pretend i learned anything in that time that tells me how to improve the u.s. economy or how to build companies or create jobs. what i learned was how to strip mine the cash out of the company to pay the debt. what i learned was how to powder up the pig in order to sell it in the quickest and make money. it made some large gains. in some cases, had some bankruptcies in others.

the point is leverage buyouts are not about growing an economy. when you look at the record of bain capital, that's what it shows. everybody is aware of the five companies. they put in $100 million within a year or two. these five companies went bankrupt. that happens. and frankly, if you're in that business and want to be a speculator, fine. if you want to own the casino, fine. i believe in a free economy. but you shouldn't pretend that somehow this gives you superior qualifications to figure out how to run the economy. let's look at the other two companies on the other side to give some idea of what leverage buyouts really do. >> slow is down though. this is an important lesson. walk us through it. >> bain capital had two other companies where they invested $100 million. >> of their own million? >> funds money.

>> they are managing other peoples' money. >> they put in $100 million and took out $500 million. in these two companies, they were spectacular sx. one was bought for a billion dollars. two months later, they sold it for $1.7 billion. they bought it cheap from trw. i don't think there was an auction. two months later before they even moved into the house or painted the kitchen or crossed the front door, they sold it to a british company that was run by margaret thatcher's former staff director. >> how is that? >> how did that work? >> they made $200 million in two months. good for them. that's great speculation. i would call that an inside job. now the other one was that they bought the yellow pages in 1997 from the utility in italy. >> if you're going to do that, you have a relationship in the

government. if you're buying something from the government for cheap. >> i would guess there was a relationship. they put in $17 million. they took out $300 million years later on the yellow pages. technology was all the rage. how could you make it in the yellow pages unless you bought it really cheap and were part of a crony crowd that took it over for cheap. let's call that the italian job. when you look at the record, $100 in and a billion out. one was an italian job one was an inside job and one was a screw job. >> and that's a way to make money, but that's a fraudulent way to represent the narrative of capitalism. >> the question is is there anything -- can any of these candidates draw a distinction between crony capitalism and

capitalism? the left is all about blurring those two together. obama will do the krocrony capitalism while attacking capitalism at the same time. gingrich can't make that distinction given his record, but can romney do it? >> or do we in the press have to do it? >> i think the press can do it. i think ron paul is doing it. whether you like what he has to say or not, he's been consistent over the years and over the years. >> i love what he has to say about banks. >> let the market work. if we would only get back to letting the free market work. frankly, obama has been just as bad. they didn't do anything about a banking system that's more out of control today than it was when they came in. they put into the key economic jobs summers and geithner and all the rest of them who had caused the problem in the first place. >> so how do we solve had this? how did they cause it in the first place? it was by deregulation. >> it was not by deregulation.

it was mainly free money from the fed. almost 0 interest rates. massive encouragement for people to leverage speculate. the reason those work is you have the green span put in the bernanke put. borrow 99 cents. buy 100 cents worth of assets and don't worry that anything bad is going to happen because the fed has your back. >> you're say we have done nothing since 2008. so is it going to take meltdown for a reset meeting? it sounds like it's going to hit rock bottom somewhere. . >> we're doing the same thing over and over. the top six banks had $6 trillion in assets. they now have $9 trillion. the top three banks in france have $6 trillion in assets. we have banks everywhere in the world out of control, stuffed with bad assets being propped up

by the central banks. and they are playing this game of kick the can and pretend that everything is all right. >> put yourself in the american peoples' position. we're in full agreement that the basic theme of "greedy bastards." it's the theme of this show, which is the system with both political parties facilitating a distorted capital market. if you look here in reality at president who has facilitated a cover up of that, and two potential aspirants, one who is on the take of the crony capitalism of fannie mae and freddie mac, and another one who is doing the closest masquerade of hiring and firing people. but his motivation is not to create value. it's to extract money using

other peoples' money as we are all learning this. it becomes remarkably frustrating for the american voter, let alone people sitting around here to reconcile it. so i'm interested in your thoughts of how we can apply pressure to all three of these people. the president, mitt romney and newt gingrich to talk about the elephant in the room. >> the elephant in the room is the federal reserve. the problem behind all this is the try fek ta of free money. 2% for ten years, you're encouraging people to build up leverage and spectate. it only showers gains on a few things. that doesn't help the economy. that's churning. >> you're saying any type of regulation is about speculation? those would be irrelevant. >> one issue is cheap money and the second is banks. banks are not free enterprise.

they are wards of the state. we need to get banks out of trading. banks should be in the business of taking deposits and lending. if you want to be gold man sacks, give up your bank charter. do that, but don't have the fed window. don't have deposit insurance which their bank has. >> and then walk around like you're a tough guy. thank you very much. come back sooner rather than later. you set the table perfect for tomorrow. nice to see you. i look forward to seeing the debate tonight to hear these two throw housing and unemployment at one another. next up here, paradise in par el. what we're planning for the tour. [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus presents: the cold truth.

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only for a brief rest, but we're heading to miami this wednesday, thursday, and friday for the next leg of our 30 million jobs tour. florida a beautiful state. it happens to be ground zero for many of the problems. notably, foreclosure, the housing crisis, poverty, and health care. on wednesday night, we also have a great event planned. talking about our book gree"gre bastards" and its ongoing introduc the conversation. then it is on to the belly of the beast. the following week, next week, we're off to d.c. taking the "greedy bastards" message directly to washington, d.c. on february 1st, we'll be at the sixth and i historic synagogue. we're not done by a long shot. when we're done in d.c., we're

off to texas. we'll get into the energy project and then to a tour of three major u.s. college campuses in late february examining how to create the tens of thousands of jobs they need right now for their graduating class this is year. it's a busy but exciting time for all of us here. we hope you get a chance to meet us. i hope i get a chance to meet you along the way. i hope you're enjoying the expansion of this conversation to something more of us can participate in in general. up next, ripped from the book "greedy bastards," symptoms from causes. you can't solve the problem if you don't understand its root. our next guest will help us do that after this.

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and she suggested i try boost complete nutritional drink to help get the nutrition i was missing. now i drink it every day and i love the great taste. [ female announcer ] boost has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to help keep bones strong and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. and our great taste is guaranteed or your money back. learn more at boost.com. [ dad ] i choose great taste. i choose boost. of the central themes on this show is the assumption that you cannot solve any problem without first understanding the distinction between the causes and the root of the problems and things that may appear to be problems but are more than symptoms. this could not be more true than when it comes to health care in this country. the lack of coverage, the out of

control costs. they are little more than symptoms. the causes for those symptoms are the misaligned interests between health professionals and patients created inside of a fee for service billing model and monopolies government approve over private insurance and the drug companies. you add the monopolies to the service system and they create misaligned interests between our health professionals and our health. not to mention, and this perhaps the most significant, we are not seizing on modern problem solving to allocate our investment in health care where it is needed the most. if you need proof, look no further than this one statistic. 50% of american health care costs are spent by 5% of our population. which is not by the way, because

they are evil, it's because they are the super users. they are the ones most in need of care. john gruver is the key of the massachusetts health reforms. he has a new book out. of "heal" help us further elaborate on how the lack of coverage and the cost of coverage, which is the pain we all feel is really systematic of a system that has misaligned interests with patients. >> thanks for having me. i think you missed one other. there's a lot of misaligned interests. and i think there's one other

important one you need to mention, which is the failure of insurance companies to offer fairly-priced insurance to individuals who don't get it from employers. that's what the legislation will address. >> just for everybody's same, nobody wants expensive health care you can't get that's allocated based on who has a job or who knows who. we all get it. it's a joke. it's more than a joke. it's a tragedy. >> it's a tragedy this many americans don't understand. most americans have health insurance from their what they don't know, if you don't have access to that insurance, it's a nightmare. >> not only health care. i'll up the anteand say it's un-american as we aspired as a

ko country -- i'm saying on the mobility aspect. if we're on a 30 million jobs tour and e we need people to move around and we want this adaptive capacity and the biggest reason somebody doesn't want to quit working on my show who has a brilliant idea is because they are afraid they will lose their health care from nbc. this is all over the country. but the point is whether they can get health care or not should not determine whether they can change jobs or not. what they can do to focus people on the impact of the insurance fee for service and the two classes of citizens. what do you view as the most effective thing you have seen to begin on a state level to confront it. >> i think that what you really need to do is take on the problems you know how to solve. we know how to solve the problem of discrimination in insurance

markets. you make insurance price fairly, but do it in a pool where everyone participates through the individual mandate and make it affordable with subsidies. you put those together. in massachusetts we have gotten to a 98% insurance rate. 70% public support. that's the first step. >> i get it it. the math, and we all understand there are naturally misaligned interests because demand for health is higher when we're younger and older. and the life span, there's a natural misaligned interest, which we need to correct for so we're not just making the sick people pay for everything. so that's a natural correction we see with the insurance market. explain on that. that's the part people say that's socialist. that's communist. that's un-american to force people to participate in the pool. my criticism has been not the mandate, but the mandate into an

unreformed drug and private insurance monopoly that's based on the employer-based health care system. so everybody has to do it, but what the it is is still stuck in 1950. you feel like you're getting forced into a screwed up machine. >> you raise two points. the first is to understand we need to get everyone to participate. it's not socialism. this is is trying to build on a private health insurance system that works for most americans. this is a system that has a lot of economic failures both on the insurance side and medical providers side. but let's be realistic. we can't address all those now. it's hard. so what do you do? you start down the road. cover people. and start to experiment with alternative ways to move from this system to pay providers based on the health they make you. that's what the affordable care act does. >> the last thing is you may

already be familiar, but dr. brener in camden, new jersey, with the work he's done hot spotting and finding that 1%. spending 30% of the money and realize i realizing it's a lot of people who simply haven't been taking their medicine. going for a walk. literally going in and reducing health care costs by 50% by simply affecting the 1 to 3% of the population that's going to the emergency room all the time. i feel like between the work you're doing, we're able to move up the learning curve. i thank you for your efforts and for your work educating us. there you go. coming up on "hardball," nut beat mitt in south carolina. can he win in florida? chris live in tampa. first, which knows the most about religion? ♪ he was a 21st century global nomad ♪ ♪ home was an airport lounge and an ipad ♪

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it's monday. it's time for kelly's rant. >> thanks, dylan. newt gingrich's win in south carolina has made the unthinkable certain. a christian is poised to become the nominee for president. of the four candidates ron paul is a protestant while rick santorum is catholic. there's just one problem. polls show religion remains political prejudice, particularly against those who don't fit the definition of christian. a recent poll found 22% of americans are unlike ly to vote for a mormon candidate. a number unchanged for decades. a 2007 survey found 46% of

americans said they would be less likely to vote for someone who was muslim but that pales in comparison to atheist. a separate study released found that atheists are as distrusted as rapists. keep in mind, like discussions of race and sex, religion is a topic about which some lie out of embarrassment. so religious bias is likely higher than polls show. in recent years religious prejudice has emerged as one of the forms of voters bias. perhaps the most ironic thing about this is according to a 2010 study, an overwhelming majority of those who believe in god are ignorant of basic biblical facts and facts about other religions. 2% of those surveyed were able to answer all of the questions on the religion quiz correctly. most were able to answer half.

this means people who aren't well versed in their own believes are making decisions in the voting booth fuelled by prejudice that isn't well informed. you know who is well versed in religion? atheists. that's who. they were among the top-scoring groups on the quiz. mo mormons also scored well. so if we're not knowledgeable about our faith, how can a vote based in on someone else's religious believes be rooted in anything but prejudice? this is a question that romney and supporters will end up asking should he lose the republican primary? along with the question, i wonder what might have been were i mitt romney the methodist and not the mormon? >> human beings are an interesting bunch. >> that i would say. >> it's an extraordinary moment in time when you